Apple execs explain Apple's position in the AI race & how it isn't necessarily 'behind'

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in iOS edited June 10

Marketing head Greg Jozwiak and software chief Craig Federighi share some familiar arguments about Apple Intelligence, Siri's place in it, and how they aren't technically in the same AI race.

Intersecting colorful abstract shapes over red running track lanes numbered one to six.
Apple's running a different AI race



Apple's executives rarely speak in interviews, let alone share details about how they think about products beyond them being the best in class. However, a refreshingly honest snippet of an upcoming wider interview showed exactly where Apple sees itself in the bigger picture.

Wall Street Journal's Joanna Stern sat down with Apple SVP of Software Engineering Craig Federighi and SVP of Worldwide Marketing Greg Joswiak, and she's shared a seven-minute snippet focused on AI before the larger interview is released. Much of what Federighi discussed on Apple Intelligence echoed what was seen in an earlier conversation with iJustine, but new details emerged once Joz weighed in.

In both interviews, Federighi explained that Apple had working versions of the contextual Siri powered by app intents, and in fact, what was shown was actually running. Joz even scoffed at the idea of it being "demo ware," in what seemed to be a pointed comment at Daring Fireball's John Gruber.

Stern pressed the executives, asking about the usefulness of Apple Intelligence and if Apple could "keep up" with the competition. She also shared that she didn't use Apple Intelligence much herself and instead relied on competitors' products.

Here's Joz's response in full:

"Again, it's important to realize our strategy is a little bit different than some other people, right? Our idea of Apple intelligence is using generative AI to be an enabling technology for features across our operating system -- so much so that sometimes you're doing things you don't even realize that you're using Apple intelligence, or, you know, AI, to do them, and that's our goal.

Integrate it. There's no destination, there's no app called Apple Intelligence, which is different than a chat bot, which, again, what I think some people have kind of conflated a bit, like, 'Where's your chat bot?' We didn't do that.

What we decided was that we would give you access to one through ChatGPT, because, you know, we think that was the best one, but our idea is to integrate across the operating system, make it features that, you know, I certainly use every day."



His response echoed a lot of the sentiment in my piece I wrote about Apple's position in the AI race. So much pits Apple as a direct competitor to ChatGPT, and that just seems wrong.

Federighi takes it a step further, explaining that Apple doesn't need to deliver every technology on Earth. No one asked why Apple wasn't a shopping destination like Amazon, or why it didn't build a YouTube competitor, so it seems odd that everyone is clamoring for Apple to supply a chatbot.

You can watch the clip below.

These aren't new arguments



Instead of a destination, the executives explain that Apple Intelligence is a background framework that enhances what users do every day. They technically shouldn't even be thinking of the fact that they're using AI, let alone Apple Intelligence.

Large blue and green globe with continents in front of bold silver letters reading WWDC on a dark background.
Image Playground made this sloppy image when prompted with 'WWDC'



The on-device, private, personal Apple Intelligence is only just starting to spread out across the operating systems outside of their early feature sets. Developers can start using the on-device model to achieve results they'd have had to pay ChatGPT for and siphon off user data to do so.

There are rumors that Siri will get an LLM backend, and even with those contextual updates via app intents, it doesn't seem like Apple will release an AI app or chatbot. Instead, the Apple ecosystem will act as a backend for personalized, contextual, and proactive interactions that occur across devices and apps.

As I've shared before, it may seem like Apple is behind because Image Playground makes terrible images and Siri still doesn't know how calendars work, but I wouldn't bet against them. While Apple pulls back to bide its time and ensure its features are well and truly ready for prime time, the rest of the world will pursue increasingly powerful slop generators running on heavily polluting power sources.

It's not that Apple is behind in the AI race, or even that it's waiting to leap ahead at the right moment, as I suggested in a previous piece, it's that they're running a totally different race. One that brings powerful apps and systems to iPhone while still giving users access to the tools they need via Visual Intelligence and integrations with ChatGPT.

For now, I'll continue to use Apple Intelligence every day for my work. I'm excited to see what developers will be able to do with the Foundation Models framework later in the fall.



Read on AppleInsider

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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 24
    I think that's a great POV. I want AI to help me, not a new app to fire up. I want common sense things, help me find photos without having to tag them all. ETC. That's the win. 
    ihatescreennamesAnilu_777ssfe11ToroidaldewmePenziStrangeDayslotonesjibgrandact73
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  • Reply 2 of 24
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,790member
    "In both interviews, Federighi explained that Apple had working versions of the contextual Siri powered by app intents, and in fact, what was shown was actually running. Joz even scoffed at the idea of it being "demo ware," in what seemed to be a pointed comment at Daring Fireball's John Gruber."

    Now we know why Gruber wasn't granted an interview with Apple execs this year.  
    Anilu_777ssfe11ToroidalblastdoorStrangeDaysAlex1N
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  • Reply 3 of 24

    Joz even scoffed at the idea of it being "demo ware," in what seemed to be a pointed comment at Daring Fireball's John Gruber.

    Sure, now that it’s a year later. We still aren’t seeing the semantic index stuff that was touted at WWDC 2024. What is Joz scoffing at?
    tiredskillsssfe11Toroidalmuthuk_vanalingam
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  • Reply 4 of 24
    Wesley_Hilliardwesley_hilliard Posts: 552member, administrator, moderator, editor

    Joz even scoffed at the idea of it being "demo ware," in what seemed to be a pointed comment at Daring Fireball's John Gruber.

    Sure, now that it’s a year later. We still aren’t seeing the semantic index stuff that was touted at WWDC 2024. What is Joz scoffing at?
    At the suggestion that what was shown during WWDC 2024 was faked or not actually running.
    Alex1N
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  • Reply 5 of 24

    Joz even scoffed at the idea of it being "demo ware," in what seemed to be a pointed comment at Daring Fireball's John Gruber.

    Sure, now that it’s a year later. We still aren’t seeing the semantic index stuff that was touted at WWDC 2024. What is Joz scoffing at?
    At the suggestion that what was shown during WWDC 2024 was faked or not actually running.
    I understand, I’m just saying that it has been a year since the event where many things that were shown still haven’t been seen (by anyone outside of Apple), and yet he scoffs at the notion they don’t exist. Seems silly to me. I’m happy he seems confident in Apple’s ability to deliver the still missing features, but he shouldn’t be scoffing. 

    Side note: there is a lot of speculation that Apple snubbed Gruber over the Something is Rotten article, but I’d also point out that Gruber has made many posts specifically calling out Tim Cook for donating to Trump’s inauguration and seeming to be generally supportive of Trump. Gruber’s comments on that subject frequently use terms like “bootlicker” and it’s certainly possible that it’s those comments, made over and over about Tim Cook that he has been snubbed over. 
    tiredskillsrandominternetpersonlotonesAlex1Nmuthuk_vanalingam
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  • Reply 6 of 24
    mpantonempantone Posts: 2,458member
    Look, what was shown at WWDC 2024 -- whether it was faked or real -- has less relevance. I'm pretty sure that if fed the right inquiry/parameters, Apple Intelligence would have behaved similarly to what was shown then.

    What we don't know is A.) if they were using a demo version of the LLM that had no guardrails, B.) what the actual query was, or C.) whether or not the LLM itself has changed (this latter point is is extremely likely). 

    We also don't know the reliability of the answer, whether it would behave similar for ten thousand, one hundred thousand, one million, one billion, one trillion user requests. Apple senior management knows that their LLM is unreliable. It worked for that one specific instance that video recorded in 2024 but it wouldn't be the same for Joe Consumer using the production LLM model. Which is why there is no production Siri LLM model.

    We have gone over this before.
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  • Reply 7 of 24
    Wesley_Hilliardwesley_hilliard Posts: 552member, administrator, moderator, editor

    Joz even scoffed at the idea of it being "demo ware," in what seemed to be a pointed comment at Daring Fireball's John Gruber.

    Sure, now that it’s a year later. We still aren’t seeing the semantic index stuff that was touted at WWDC 2024. What is Joz scoffing at?
    At the suggestion that what was shown during WWDC 2024 was faked or not actually running.
    I understand, I’m just saying that it has been a year since the event where many things that were shown still haven’t been seen (by anyone outside of Apple), and yet he scoffs at the notion they don’t exist. Seems silly to me. I’m happy he seems confident in Apple’s ability to deliver the still missing features, but he shouldn’t be scoffing. 

    Side note: there is a lot of speculation that Apple snubbed Gruber over the Something is Rotten article, but I’d also point out that Gruber has made many posts specifically calling out Tim Cook for donating to Trump’s inauguration and seeming to be generally supportive of Trump. Gruber’s comments on that subject frequently use terms like “bootlicker” and it’s certainly possible that it’s those comments, made over and over about Tim Cook that he has been snubbed over. 
    Gruber never called Cook a bootlicker, though he did Bezos, for good reason. From what I've read and listened to, Gruber may not have been happy about Cook's dealings with the President, but he never insulted him for it. In fact, his feelings echo my own, that Cook really can't not suck up to the President right now, that not playing ball wasn't an option.

    There's no evidence that Gruber's snubbing has anything to do with Cook. However, his article on Apple Intelligence and podcast that goes even further was definitely more than enough for Apple to take issue. Whether he was right or wrong doesn't matter, he straight up said he felt lied to and like he was a fool, and if I was on the receiving end of those comments after 10 years of being on his show as a nicety, I wouldn't be happy. Apple has stopped talking to people for less.
    randominternetpersonjibdewmeAlex1N
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  • Reply 8 of 24
    citpekscitpeks Posts: 264member
    Federighi takes it a step further, explaining that Apple doesn't need to deliver every technology on Earth. No one asked why Apple wasn't a shopping destination like Amazon, or why it didn't build a YouTube competitor, so it seems odd that everyone is clamoring for Apple to supply a chatbot.
    Nobody is seriously asking Apple to directly compete with Amazon, YouTube, or Google Search.

    What people do expect is for Apple to deliver on the promises it made itself last year with Apple Intelligence, and it has thus far failed to do.

    At its best, Apple runs its own race, and doesn't let others define the rules.  Even when it does, it finds ways to bring something different to the table, and win.  At its best.

    So, there is truth in what they say.

    But as successful as Apple has been, it has not been free of missteps, and failing to fully develop technologies it helped bring to the market.

    Siri, of course, is most famous, and not being able to deliver on AI is in danger of following that same path.  Redemption still awaits.

    HomeKit could have enabled Apple to grab a much larger share of the IoT market, even rule it as far as its own users go, but its success was left in the hands of others.

    In both cases, Apple squandered whatever lead it held, and is now forced to play catch up, by trying to make Siri smart, and developing home/IoT products beyond a speaker.  Even with a rumored launch of a home hub product later this year, HomeOS was MIA from WWDC.  So what, an iPad married to a HomePod?  How will developers be able to enhance it and make it essential, or will they be shut out of a closed shop, at least until WWDC '26, '27, or whenever Apple feels, or is forced to open it up to others?

    The company was prescient, in incorporating ML, and ML hardware into its products, but again, for a company that has in the past skated to where the puck is going, not where it was (or in the words of Jobs, "giving people what they want, before they know it") the whole Apple Intelligence effort has been reactive, not proactive.

    It's not difficult to see, however the execs want to spin it.  Nobody forced the people at WWDC '24 to go on stage, and make the promises they did.  Apple dug its own hole there, perhaps out of an uncharacteristic bout of pressure, if not panic.

    None of this is to say Apple is "doomed," to steal that old joke.  Far from it.  But for a company that usually manages to put most items in the Win column, it would be foolish to ignore those in the Loss column, especially big ones that has cost it new markets, and the benefits they bring.

    One would also be foolish to bet against Apple, but today's Apple is not the Apple of old, and there is no magic CEO to lead the company like before.  We've seen what happens before when Apple was in that situation.

    As a user, my response to these two would be -- don't tell me, show me.  Apple's employees knew that would be the standard going into every meeting where Jobs was in attendance.  Do they still know, or have that fear and hunger?  Or is the company slowly drifting into mediocrity and complacence again, just with a much larger financial buffer this time around?  It wouldn't be the first tech giant to do so.

    For these two guys, and Apple to be able to later say "I told you so" it first has to deliver on its own promises.
    roundaboutnowAnilu_7777omrssfe11ITGUYINSDdewmeAlex1N
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  • Reply 9 of 24
    nubusnubus Posts: 864member
    mpantone said:
    Look, what was shown at WWDC 2024 -- whether it was faked or real -- has less relevance.
    Apple execs stating that the company is not behind - but are yet to deliver what at WWDC 2024 for the current versions. That makes it relevant to see what was promised.
    Currently Apple is behind even their own plans while stating that everything is fine.

    To give up on privacy and use OpenAI - this only happened as Apple was and is behind. To have still only 1 partner - another.

    At this point the execs should be honest about it and tell how Apple will get back with a solid plan.
    williamlondonjibmuthuk_vanalingam
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  • Reply 10 of 24
    7omr7omr Posts: 10member
    I support Apple’s approach to seamless integration of AI. AI will naturally recede into the fabric of our devices. I even understand their need to spin the current state of affairs. It is not an optimal position for them to be in, Apple will get this right in the end and they have enough time to do so.

    Where I think these comments miss the mark is trivializing the evolution of LLM functionality with the term “chatbot.” From Siri to Alexa to ChatGPT, the promise is always a natural language interface to our devices. To pretend that it should not be core to Apple’s user experience is simply not believable. It is more essential and thus not comparable to Amazon or YouTube. Our digital agents will be an essential part of how we interface with our devices. I get Apple needs to buy some time, but this will be core to human interaction with our digital ecosystem. For Apple to suggest otherwise is disingenuous.
    Alex1N
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  • Reply 11 of 24
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 3,557member
    Personally I like Apple’s take on AI. it’s isn’t trying to spoon feed me what IT WANTS. it’s a tool I0  control and choose what I want to do. 

    Everyone else’s ai tries to almost remove the user from their work. That’s wack. I don’t want some unimind consensus machine forcing its whims. I want to direct and control. And even not use ai at all most of the time. I didn’t invest time into learning skills just to turn off my brain and hit cruise control - then just settle for whatever the system threw up on me. 

    A lot of ai is useful and it seems that’s what apple is focusing on. 

    Even so, they actually ARE a bit behind in execution quality. Some of the photo fixing is kind of embarrassing compared to the competition for example. But I expect this will be resolved shortly. The point is Apple is not behind in ai itself and is actually AHEAD when it comes to an ethical way of going about it. And on-device is definitely the way to go. 




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  • Reply 12 of 24
    Personally I think Apple is playing with fire and for most production use cases are way way behind or irrelevant in AI.

    I use Claude, Gemini, ChatGPT and Grok (plus local models with the outstanding Apple MLX framework running on the beautiful M series Apple Silicon) along with a series of other models and services like Veo3, Midjourney etc.
    All models have pros and cons and different "personalities" if one can call it that.

    These services solve real problems for me and has transformed my productivity. When reasoning models trickled through another jolt of uplift of outcomes and frankly my main constraint is that my use case ideation process is too slow to fully use the vast capabilities.

    Google IO was a mic drop of awesome. Apple is behaving like AI is an add-on when AI has already become integrated into a large set of use cases for daily life and business processes. The MLX crew are continuously knocking it out of the park but feels like an engineer led sideshow rather than strategy.

    Apple's narrative that AI Siri is not good enough for Apple yet is just nonsense when their operational Siri stinks. I think most customers would take a half baked AI Siri over the current Siri. Perfect getting in the way of good.


    ssfe11Fred257ToroidalStrangeDaysWesley_Hilliardjibdewmewilliamlondon
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  • Reply 13 of 24
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 8,304member
    Marketing people will do marketing. Product people will defend their products. Companies will try 'silence' first, then 'spin' and only when there is no way out, will they open up about a failing (especially if it is a strategic error like in this case). 

    There is no other race. Nor is there the notion of Apple racing with itself. 

    Apple was behind and remains behind. 

    With generative AI and Ai in general it literally doesn't matter if it is system-wide or in an app (or multiple apps). 

    AI brings options to users. Exactly how that is done is irrelevant.

    Gruber was absolutely correct with his comments and I can understand why Apple feels awkward about having an 'ally' be so blunt. 

    The reality is that Apple can simply no longer ignore AI (the 'ML' WWDC) or promise major features (the 'AI' WWDC) and underdeliver them. 

    If Apple weren't behind, they would have not had to mention any of this in interviews. A competitive product would already be shipping and it would have shipped around 2022/23.

    In the same vein, Apple would have its own AI training and inference hardware rolled out across the board by now. 

    In terms of systemwide AI (in the ML sense), that has been seeping into systems since 2017 with the first NPUs. 

    Of course, it's all got better and faster since then and will continue to do so. 

    Apple got very wrongfooted by all of this and we have watched things play out accordingly. 


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  • Reply 14 of 24
    ssfe11ssfe11 Posts: 174member
    Finally some rational reasoning…….I never understood “Apple is behind on AI” what the heck does “is behind” mean? Vast major of analysts and financial media outlets never answered that. They all just kept saying “Apple is behind!” Hello “behind how?” A few journalists, I think Wesley was one of them, did highlight that Apple wasn’t behind anything lol. It’s so strange and funny too how a false meme “Apple is behind in AI” just grabs people and everyone then runs with it. Never doubt Apple. 
    williamlondonStrangeDaysAlex1N
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  • Reply 15 of 24
    ssfe11ssfe11 Posts: 174member
    Also how are the many AI chatbots any different then yahoo search or google search back or lycos search back in kate 90s or Microsoft bing(later on) etc. Search engines were as magical and useful back then as AI is now. Apple supported all search engines as it will with AI(Gemini, ChatGPT, Claude, Perplexity etc). However the only difference this time is Apple is developing its own LLM(Ajax) when it never developed a search engine during early Internet days. Plus of course Apple is using the full extent of AI it’s just the user doesn’t know it. It’s all super promising for Apple
    williamlondonStrangeDaysAlex1N
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  • Reply 16 of 24

    Joz even scoffed at the idea of it being "demo ware," in what seemed to be a pointed comment at Daring Fireball's John Gruber.

    Sure, now that it’s a year later. We still aren’t seeing the semantic index stuff that was touted at WWDC 2024. What is Joz scoffing at?
    At the suggestion that what was shown during WWDC 2024 was faked or not actually running.
    Apple implied a general ability with their demo - without the necessary caveats, context, limitations explicitly stated. I think calling it vaporware or demo ware is perfectly appropriate. Apple execs may be technically accurate to say Siri did that one thing unfaked, but it was seriously misleading and they had to know that at the time. It's not the same level of fakery as Tesla's FSD video, but Apple hurt their reputation/credibility with their promises. 
    williamlondonAlex1Ncflcardsfan80
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  • Reply 17 of 24
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 3,819member
    "In both interviews, Federighi explained that Apple had working versions of the contextual Siri powered by app intents, and in fact, what was shown was actually running. Joz even scoffed at the idea of it being "demo ware," in what seemed to be a pointed comment at Daring Fireball's John Gruber."

    Now we know why Gruber wasn't granted an interview with Apple execs this year.  
    Yup! 

    Maybe for the best. Those interviews were ok but not great. I like Gruber quite a bit as a writer and he’s not bad on a podcast, but he doesn’t come across as well in a live video format. He always seemed a little in over his head. Also, he was in this awkward space of wanting to ask “real” questions but also being a big fan. Nothing wrong with either of those sentiments, but it’s challenging (not impossible, just challenging) to do both at the same time.

    So maybe better to have the real journalists do the interviews and have Gruber do his thing (which I like a fair bit).
    StrangeDaysAlex1N
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  • Reply 18 of 24
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 3,819member
    Two things can be true at once. Apple’s historical strength as a company has been to pull together existing technologies into a coherent, useful, and elegantly designed product. So it makes sense that they would view an LLM as a technology that they will combine with other technologies to make a great product. Thad’s all well and good. But they are also seriously behind in actually doing that.

    Where is Swift Assist? Why isn’t Siri better? Why is image playground so limited? 

    Meanwhile, ChatGPT isn’t actually just an LLM. I get the distinct impression that people here dismissing it as such haven’t really used it for productive purposes. ChatGPT integrates an LLM with several other technologies behind the scenes to offer a pretty good product. It’s far from perfect — there’s lots of room for improvement. But it’s truly useful, and useful enough that people pay for it (unlike Netscape in its heyday). 
    williamlondonAlex1N
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  • Reply 19 of 24
    StrangeDaysstrangedays Posts: 13,200member

    Joz even scoffed at the idea of it being "demo ware," in what seemed to be a pointed comment at Daring Fireball's John Gruber.

    Sure, now that it’s a year later. We still aren’t seeing the semantic index stuff that was touted at WWDC 2024. What is Joz scoffing at?
    At the suggestion that what was shown during WWDC 2024 was faked or not actually running.
    I understand, I’m just saying that it has been a year since the event where many things that were shown still haven’t been seen (by anyone outside of Apple), and yet he scoffs at the notion they don’t exist. Seems silly to me. I’m happy he seems confident in Apple’s ability to deliver the still missing features, but he shouldn’t be scoffing. 

    Side note: there is a lot of speculation that Apple snubbed Gruber over the Something is Rotten article, but I’d also point out that Gruber has made many posts specifically calling out Tim Cook for donating to Trump’s inauguration and seeming to be generally supportive of Trump. Gruber’s comments on that subject frequently use terms like “bootlicker” and it’s certainly possible that it’s those comments, made over and over about Tim Cook that he has been snubbed over. 
    Those criticisms of Cook are entirely fair. Nobody forced him to make a $1MM bribe to the president, a first. IMO this is a serious moral failing of modern-day Apple, which didn’t get much play. Cook should be banged for it, repeatedly. If it was a bribe for Qatar to give a man a free freaking airplane, it’s also a bribe to give him a million cash. 
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  • Reply 20 of 24
    StrangeDaysstrangedays Posts: 13,200member

    citpeks said:
    Federighi takes it a step further, explaining that Apple doesn't need to deliver every technology on Earth. No one asked why Apple wasn't a shopping destination like Amazon, or why it didn't build a YouTube competitor, so it seems odd that everyone is clamoring for Apple to supply a chatbot.
    HomeKit could have enabled Apple to grab a much larger share of the IoT market, even rule it as far as its own users go, but its success was left in the hands of others.

    In both cases, Apple squandered whatever lead it held, and is now forced to play catch up, by trying to make Siri smart, and developing home/IoT products beyond a speaker.  Even with a rumored launch of a home hub product later this year, HomeOS was MIA from WWDC.  So what, an iPad married to a HomePod?  How will developers be able to enhance it and make it essential, or will they be shut out of a closed shop, at least until WWDC '26, '27, or whenever Apple feels, or is forced to open it up to others?


    One would also be foolish to bet against Apple, but today's Apple is not the Apple of old, and there is no magic CEO to lead the company like before.  We've seen what happens before when Apple was in that situation.
    Apple isn’t losing IoT, because it does not sell IoT home goods. Nor do I believe it wants to. I am skeptical they want to sell deadbolts and outlets, which are niche markets. It’s just not their bag. The rumors of a HomePod-iPad mashup seem very unlikely to me. 

    As for not having Jobs, reality doesn’t match your claim. Apple has achieved more growth and more success under the “normal” CEO Cook than it did Jobs. Most CEOs are not also product managers and spokesmen, Jobs was the exception there and wound up delegating typical CEO duties to…Cook. Most CEOs of most brands are relatively nameless people who work on the business. That’s the job. That’s what Cook does. Product development is for product managers. The expectation that Apple must crank out new product category hit after hit is not how any company operates. Having the Mac, iPod, iPhone, iPad and Watch, all hits, is extremely rare. Expecting new ones and the lack of them as evidence that Apple lost its way or whatever, is contrary to normal reality. 
    dewmeAlex1Ndanoxcflcardsfan80muthuk_vanalingam
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